Transcription

00:10

Emily: Welcome to the 4:18 Podcast. Typically this podcast shares untold stories of what God has done and is doing in Africa to bring Good News to the poor. But today we are talking about the power of prayer. This is where today’s podcast guests, Duane and Pauline Norman come in. When I’ve had the pleasure of meeting them as partners of Possibilities Africa, it’s abundantly clear that they pray fervently. So today, they are in the podcast studio for a conversation about prayer. Welcome Duane and Pauline.

00:39

Would you start by sharing a little bit about who you are and how you spend your time these days?  

Pauline: So yeah, Emily, it’s great to be here with you and we’re excited to be part of this. We appreciate the Ministry of Possibilities Africa and the influence, the impact it’s had on our family.  And  as I was telling Emily, we’ve never been to Africa, but we have followed along for quite a few years

01:09

and appreciate the ministry there.  And we’ve prayed for it. So we’re Duane and Pauline Norman, and we are now Lincolnites. We lived in North Platte for 40 years. And although we grew up in central, we moved to be closer to our grandkids, well kids and grandkids. So here we are. 

Emily: Yeah, that’s great. 

Duane: Actually, when we got married, we went to Kansas City to Calvary Bible College. 

Emily: Okay.

01:39

Duane: And we were there nine years. We had thought the Lord was calling us to missions. 

Emily: Wow. 

Duane: And so we were en route to that and the Lord called us back to North Platte. And it’s abundantly clear to us that he wanted us there to minister and

02:07

to raise a family which has in turn, as you know, some of them are in ministry and we’ve had the opportunity to support missions through the years. 

Pauline: Actually our move back to North Platte was because Duane had said, you you knew your grandparents when you were growing up, but I didn’t know mine because we were so far away. And so we moved by faith particularly so that our kids could know their grandparents.

02:37

And so we left by faith because we sold our house and we didn’t have a job and we didn’t have a place to live. We just knew the Lord was calling us. Actually, I have to confess that it took me a little while to catch up with him when he said, I think we should move back to North Platte. I thought we were going to be in Kansas City for the rest of our lives. And we loved it there. But yeah, we’re thankful we stepped out by faith and the Lord provided work the very day we got there. So,

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yeah, he’s been faithful over the years. That’s amazing. We were married 53 years ago. So we just thank the Lord for his faithfulness in raising three kids, and he’s a prayer-hearing and prayer-answering God.  

Emily: Yeah, that’s so beautiful. That’s amazing. What was it like when you knew he was calling you back to North Flat? Was that something that you felt like he was speaking to you or did you have more of just like a conviction? What was  the process? 

Duane: Well, we had,

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we had really planned on being there. In fact, we had just built the house. So it wasn’t like we were looking to move someplace. And we were involved in a ministry. Our church had started a school and we were involved with that, getting that started and helping with it. So we didn’t have plans to move, but we, I think Pauline and I just asked the Lord to

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give us direction, you know, because we were, we were thinking that He would still call us to a mission field. 

Pauline: Or some ministry. 

Duane: Yeah, to some ministry. So we believe that we responded to what we believe God wanted us to do by faith. Yeah, we had two kids when we came back, didn’t have a job. But the Lord

04:31

was faithful and he provided it in a miraculous way, actually. 

Pauline: He provided work for the summer and then because he wanted to take some schooling yet for heating and air and electrical refrigeration work and so then we were done with the job, he remodeled the parsonage and so then when that work was done  and school was starting then the Lord provided work for him and then

05:00

a month later, the Lord provided a home that we lived in for 40 years. Yeah, He was faithful. 

Emily: Yeah, that’s amazing. 40 years in that house. I’m sure you have so many memories. 

Pauline: Yeah. 

Emily: Yeah, that’s so cool. I love that. Well, to switch gears a little bit to what we’re talking about today, I have so many questions I would love to ask you about your life. But I know that you both pray fervently, like I mentioned. So to start this conversation, why does prayer matter?  You have years of walking with the Lord and I would love to hear what you have to share.

05:30

Duane: I think for us after we really understood that God was transforming our lives,  I was so impressed in the Old Testament when men began to call on the name of the Lord. And Pauline and I had realized through our dating how important it was that we focus on God. And so we would pray together when we started dating.

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Because we understood that if we tried to accomplish dating through our own strength, it would lead to no good. But we asked the Lord if he would begin to help us and to show us and to grow us in our faith, in our relationship with each other. And as we look back on that, God has been so faithful.

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But I think we understood that God is a sovereign God and He knows everything. So why shouldn’t you call on the name of Lord? I mean, what’s the reason not to if you have a relationship with Him?  So we understood how important it was that we pray for each other and pray for direction. And then we began to have a family, we prayed for the family. But then we understood in the church, we’d pray for the church.  Then…

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when we was at Calvary Bible College, we got to meet these kids, we were kids too, that began to go to the mission field. We took a real interest in them and we have really given money to those people for 53 years. We just believe that that was an important part

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that God had blessed us with,   you know, we didn’t have a lot of money, but we had enough. And we understood that that was His anyway. So we just, we began to pray. And then  I was on the board at this church in Olathe, Kansas. After we were there for a while, I went on and I began to be mentored by those men. And so the Lord has allowed us to serve on

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boards in different capacities over the year. 

Pauline: We just found that calling upon the Lord about everything, about everything, you know, the big and the little, and the Lord was faithful. So we had three kids and just praying for wisdom. One of my favorite verses when they were growing up was

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2 Chronicles 20 verse 12, neither know we what to do, but our eyes are on you.  And so, yeah, and then  we had a business for 40 years and  that was kind of our ministry. We were, we so thank the Lord for that answer to prayer because our son after 40 years  was saying, mom and dad, what’s your exit strategy? You know, and it’s like,

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deer in the headlights thing, you know, we’re going to pray. So we prayed and the Lord sold the business two weeks before COVID. It was like a two week process. And I can remember thinking, what is Norman Refrigeration without Norman? Yeah, what did I say? Two weeks? Yeah, it was a two year. So the Lord provided a buyer and we’re just so grateful.

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So yeah. And then I love  in Acts 17:26, it says the Lord knows the exact places we’ll live. So then we just thank the Lord for his provision of a home and place down here to minister as well.  And new church. So yeah, that’s amazing.  

Emily: So beautiful. I love that. So you touched on this a little bit, but now at this phase, and you could answer this, I guess in the last 53

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years as well, but when you think about your prayer life individually and as a couple, what does that look like and what does it look like individually and with each other as well? 

Pauline: And it has changed over the years. 

Emily: Yeah, I’m sure. 

Pauline: But that’s just a work of the Spirit, I think, because we didn’t really, I mean we grew. Yeah. Yeah. 

Duane: Our prayer life looks a little different today and than it did when we first 

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started. We love to pray and we did,  but we’ve changed a little bit. 

Pauline: In that we have more time.  

Duane: Yeah. So what it means for me is that it’s a letting loose of my expectations and letting God have them. And we pray about that. We understand that we make plans, but God orders steps.

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And so it’s really a letting go of what we think we need to do or hold on to. It’s just letting go and letting God have control of those things. And what we’ve learned over the years is there is so much freedom in that, you know, with the business, with our children. We’ve just learned that when we actually let go and let God have the control, then all things He works out for good

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of those you’re praying for, but for His glory. So why don’t you go over a little bit about what we do now for prayer? 

Pauline: We pray through a hymnal. So in the morning, well at night I pick out the next hymn and I bring it up on our iPad. And so then we can get up in the morning and we can just pray that hymn together. Like he’ll just do a verse and I’ll do a verse and then we’ll pray. And so that’s the way we begin our day.

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And then, of course, you know, we pray through the day, but then the Lord has given us some ministry too with college kids. And we’ve appreciated it. And the last time, well, the last several times we’ve been together, we hand out little three by five cards and just say, we want you to put your name and how we can pray for you. And so we pray through that list every night before we go to bed. And how that all happened to be was we listened to this

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book about Gladys Aylward and how it came upon our little granddaughter when she when they were listening to it she got in the car and mommy can we listen to Gladlys? 

Emily: Oh my gosh! 

Pauline: So I can remember Gladys, but her name was Gladys Elward, and she went to China. she just felt God was calling her to China, and she was from England, I believe—anyway, so she saved enough money to go

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to China. But her story, you’ll have to listen to it. But there was a point  where she was on a train and she met some missionaries coming home.  And so  she had shared her heart with them. And before they left, they said, okay, we don’t have much money to give you. But I think they gave her a pound,  which later saved her life. But we will pray for you every night at 9 o’clock.

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And so if you listen to her story, you just think, okay, they prayed for her and look what God did. So anyway, that impacted us. So we have quite the list to pray for every night.  Oh, and then after breakfast each morning, while we listen to Our Daily Bread on our phones, we used to read the books as families.

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And, but now we listen to it while we eat breakfast, and then we have a calendar, a prayer calendar. And so like, we pray for Possibilities Africa the 10th of every month.  And then we have a little app on our phone where we can just pray through and pray verses. So anyway, it helps

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to be just intentional and systematic. 

Emily: Yes, totally. Yeah. What is the app? 

Pauline: Oh, I just put it on our notes in our notes. 

Emily: Oh, amazing. 

Pauline: Yeah. And so we pray for family and missionaries and ministries, the college group and countries of the world and et cetera. 

Emily: Your day is just so marked by centering it on Him. I just love it. It’s amazing. 

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Duane: Well, it’s about Him.  We’ve been given life from above.  We want the kingdom, His kingdom. His will be done. You can’t pray and ask Him for selfish things because that’s an island you get on and it leads to nowhere. But God’s kingdom is eternal.

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His hand moves when we pray. And you know, we understand that. 

Pauline: We ask him to do what we can’t. So… Yeah. 

Duane: Sometimes he has to remind us of our responsibility. 

Emily: Yeah. With that, I was going to ask how prayer has strengthened your relationship in marriage and your union with God.

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Pauline: Well, prayer is like breathing,  you know? It’s just like if you had a relationship with somebody, you lived with somebody, but you never spoke to them, that would be…  that would just… yeah. So prayer is a… you know, I always used to think it was just you telling Him everything, but there’s the point of listening too. 

16:03

Duane: You know, one of the things that I used to have an issue with or couldn’t understand is this, we’re to pray about everything and without ceasing. Well, how do you do that? Finally, I realized, wait a minute, I have access to God all the time. And if our heart, if we really want God to be part of it, then we include him in everything. And so I began to say to Pauline,

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“Everything is spiritual. Everything.” So  we just say,  what do think the Lord wants to do with this? Let’s ask Him. Let’s ask Him for direction. Let’s ask Him to give us wisdom so we can pass Him on or help somebody that’s having difficulties. Let’s ask Him because that’s what we want to do, live for Him. So that’s the  motivation for us is that everything is

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spiritual. Everything. 

Pauline: And I think a real help for us in prayer was to learn to pray scripture because a lot of times people would think, “I would pray but I don’t know what to say,” and so scripture is just full of prayers you know like you can just pray scripture period. You know some are easy some passages are easier like

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Paul’s letters are good and the Psalms are good prayers. But like Luke 2:52 was a good one to pray for our kids. You know, Jesus grew in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man. You know, and so now we have just this year Duane thought it would be good if our family could memorize a verse once a month. Just our whole family can memorize one verse. And so it’s doable, you know, but

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The verse  for January was Psalm 138:3 and I love it in this version and it says, “On the day I needed you, I called and you responded and infused my soul with strength.” Psalm 138:3 and  so we love that. 

Emily: Yeah, that’s amazing.

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Pauline: You know, it’s kind of like I heard it said once, it’s like dynamite then, you know, the word of God and prayer together is powerful. And it’s not like he’s a genie in the bottle. You know, but it is a relationship that we can just say, you know, Lord,  we need you. If you don’t show up, we are in big trouble. And he wants to deliver us. So I appreciate

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in our marriage that we’re going in the same direction. And I really respect a husband that will lead me to the throne of Christ in the morning, you know, before we begin the day. I just feel like that’s a real privilege because, you know, back in the Old Testament, the priest could only go in once a year into the Lord’s presence. And he had to have a rope around his leg in case he died in there that they could pull him out. But here we have 24-7 access…

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To the creator of the universe. And we don’t take advantage of it like we ought to. Because it says that he wants to show himself strong on behalf of those who will trust him. 

Duane: Another means to prayer is when we learn these songs. Boy, we pick up some really good stuff about prayer and who God is. So we not only pray scripture but we

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pray phrases. It helps us to visualize  and put into words those things which we know that God loves for us to pray  and hear. 

Pauline: So there was a recent hymn, and I can’t even tell you what the name of  the hymn was, but, “Assist Me to Proclaim.”

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You know, and so it’s like, okay, we want to proclaim your name Lord, but we need help in this. So we appreciated that. Just Lord, assist us to proclaim your name. 

Emily: Yeah, that’s so good.  Do you have any lyrics that come to mind for you? 

Pauline: Just that one!

Emily: Okay, cool. 

Duane: You know, when we’ve been through hard times, “I’ve been through a fire that strengthened my desire to know the living God more and more, you see.”

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Pauline: “It hasn’t been much fun. hasn’t been much fun,”

Duane: “But the work that it has done  is worth the hurt…”

Pauline: “in our heart has been worth the hurt. You see, sometimes we need the hard times to bring us to our knees.  Otherwise, we do as we please and never heed him.” That was a Christine Hortzens song back in the day.  

Duane: It’s been good for us to have those things planted in the heart.  Yeah.

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As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. So we better plant some things there that’s, you know, the word of God is a real treasure because it helps you to understand and be protected from the enemy and the world itself. Those things that want to destroy, take away. But the word of God becomes a shield.  It becomes part of the warfare that we have.

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The word God, the Spirit of God, working through that to make us like Christ. 

Emily: Are there any key moments or people that have shaped your approach to prayer? 

Duane: Well, there certainly has been. My mother prayed a lot. 

Pauline: And mine did as well. And our grandmothers. 

Emily: Oh my gosh. That’s amazing. 

Pauline: So we do thank the Lord for that heritage. 

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Duane: So, we knew they prayed for us. 

Pauline: And grandparents. 

Duane: Yeah, the grandparents. So that’s been helpful to us, but there’s been others.  

Pauline: Yeah, and then just we were talking about like reading E.M. Bounds or the story of George Muller. You know, he was of the faith that have gone on before us that have, you know, we have access to learn from them.  When you read great autobiographies or whatever.

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Duane: It reminds me of the song, “Oh May All Those Come Behind Us Find Us Faithful.” Those kind of things  make us realize that we  are being watched. 

Pauline: And then too, that reminds me of a prayer that we’ve prayed for our family that we would have a godly line till Jesus comes back. 

Emily: Wow, that’s amazing.

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Pauline: Yay God! 

Emily: Yay God! That’s right. Yeah, that’s so true. Okay, so George Muller, I’m familiar with the story. I haven’t read it in depth, but…

Pauline: He was the one that had the orphans and like they wouldn’t have any breakfast for them, but he would thank the Lord for it. And then the milk wagon or something stopped outside of their house and broke down or

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bakery stopped by or chickens for delivery.  But he just depended on prayer.  I think of that song, “Tell It to Jesus Alone.” Because no one understands like Jesus and Jesus does care. 

Emily: Yeah, that’s amazing. 

Duane: We had pastors that would spend time with us. We had men in the church that would help us, mentor us, you know, as far as our prayer life, you know, hold us accountable.

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That’s part of the maturing process through a community of believers, you know, that you need that. So today I do go with some men. We meet and we hold each other accountable. And our real mission there is to see if we’re sharing Christ with other people.

Pauline: And then I used to be part of

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Moms in Touch where you pray, you know moms in prayer and now we have grandmas in prayer, so that that’s been a special thing to be part of. 

Emily: Yeah, do you meet in person for that as well? 

Pauline: Yes, once a week at a coffee shop during the school year. 

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Emily: That’s incredible. I just am feeling so refreshed by this conversation. It’s amazing. What would you say to someone who feels disconnected or unsure about the power and importance of prayer in their life? 

Pauline: Just encourage them to trust the Lord. I love the verse in 2 Corinthians 1:9, I believe, and it’s like, why are these things happening? So that we’d rely on the Lord and not ourselves.

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So sometimes we just need to stop and say, you know, why are these things happening? Oh, so we would rely on the Lord and not try to fix it ourselves. You know, so just trust the Lord and see if he won’t help you. He will. He wants to. 

Duane: I think one of the things that  we try to help people understand is that God, because of his sovereignty,

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knows all about their situation and He cares. So to encourage them to just call on the name of the Lord. Their situation may be desperate. We’ve had friends that have illnesses that eventually led to death. So what do you do in that situation? Well, God knows all about them. And you don’t want to be… 

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You want to make that real to them and they’re trying to. But boy, God is so good when you call upon him. “Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil.” That’s… being afraid then is a stealer  of God’s grace and God’s purpose for them.

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So we have to help them to understand that there is a higher purpose for your life than just now. Because you never know what you’re going to leave behind. 

Pauline: I think an encouraging thing about prayer too is that your prayers don’t die with you. That’s encouraging. I mean it’s an investment in eternity because

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the Lord saves our prayers in a bowl up there. So we don’t get that. I think the enemy wants us to think, oh, it’s just a waste of time. You know, it’s a waste of time, but it’s not. It’s a great investment for eternity.

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And so I don’t think we’ll even see all the results of our prayers while we’re living. You know? So it’ll be fun. And every once in a while you get a glimpse of, you know, where God has answered a prayer and you think, I prayed! We prayed for that! We prayed for that. And so it’s like,

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so we shouldn’t be so surprised. But you know, like when Peter came out of prison, you know, and they were all praying for him and then he was at the door, you know, so it’s like our God is  no different. He doesn’t change. still the prayer answering God. So I think in our culture, we just kind of put him in a box. And actually we’ve prayed for people over the years

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to come to know the Lord and they’re still not yet. But the end’s not yet.  So who knows? 

Duane: I think another big thing for us is the very place that we live right now, we realize that this is where God’s planted us. So you know what? Our neighbors is a mission field and they certainly need the Lord. But we pray about it and we, I mean, we’re doing the best we can. 

Pauline: Well, the Lord knows.

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And just to share Christ with them. 

Pauline: He’s going to have to assist us to proclaim.  

Duane: We ended up on a block that has over 40 kids, babies, little ones. 

Emily: Oh my gosh. 

Duane: We are the grandparents.

Emily: Yeah, the whole neighborhood. 

Pauline: Well, no, but we are some of the older ones. Okay.  Anyway, there’s some kids that are older, but there’s a lot of little ones.

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So who knows? 

Emily: So, what are you praying for the Ministry of Possibilities Africa? So one thing we’re praying is for a mega harvest of souls. You know, each day because we can’t be over there. And then to that the workers would be encouraged because the enemy would have everyone discouraged and want to give up, you know, throw in the towel.

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So to be persevering and live by faith themselves. 

Duane: We love the heart of Martin.  

Pauline: Yes. 

Duane: For his people over there. And our family has been involved. Jonathan Desirae and David 

Pauline: and Jamie have spent time over there. And so with Doug and Matt,  we’ve just, we’ve

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become involved with them, give to them the ministry and pray for them. And we’ve got a prayer sheet that you hand out and we pray through that and every month. And that’s part of our morning routine. 

Emily: Oh my gosh. That’s amazing. 

Pauline: And now you’re on the list. 

Emily: Oh, it’s so sweet. 

Duane: So, you know, we just understand and in our dining area room, we have a map of the world. And one of the things we do every day is pray for certain

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countries. And clear through the month we try to get, you should see, big, massive countries. Our grandkids come over and we read what we’re praying for and we have them look them up. So they understand that God loves people. When we have the opportunity to help them, that’s what we need to do. So we pray for them and give at this point. And we love the heart of

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Possibilities Africa.

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Thank you for being here. We appreciate your partnership in prayer and in giving. If you’re interested in partnering financially, be sure to head to usa.possibilitiesafrica.org and hit the donate button. God bless you.